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Response to Alice Miller's original post of September 28, 2008:
First of all I would like to ask why this 'discussion' is not held in private, between the people it concerns? And no it DOES NOT concern me or any of the members who have come here to talk about their childhood abuse. I have joined here feeling pretty vulnerable and reading this slanging match between two or three people has left me feeling unsafe and confused at first. Now I feel outraged.
From what I understand:
Alice Miller has taken Barbara's forum link of her website because she does not agree with IFS? And she does not agree with Barbara suddenly developing a mind and opinion of her own/agreeing with IFS hence she removed B's link of her web page?
I have only just read the first paragraph of Alice Miller's post and I already feel disgusted with what I have read. She wrote:
I even once thought that Barbara could BECOME a therapist with my help but today I would no longer say this because I think that working with IFS can't help to confront the reality of our parents and to work with patients mistreated in childhood who need to feel eventually their deeply repressed rage to become free.
I am not exactly sure what has happened to Alice but I think she needs to come back to reality and put her feet firmly on the ground.
I thought this was about healing and recovery of childhood abuse!! And not a fight of who knows best what therapy approach will help!! This truly feels like behaving in kindergarten "My toy is better than yours! No! My toy is better than yours!" And along comes bully Alice and says "NO!!! MY TOY IS BETTER THAN YOURS AND IF YOU DONT AGREE I WILL KICK YOU OFF MY PLAYGROUND BECAUSE MY DAD OWNS IT!!"
I am a counsellor in training, I also am in personal therapy, I have read articles and joined many abuse survivor groups. Online and face to face. And I always thought that the healing and recovery of the individual is paramount!? But in Alice's post i can see so clearly that this is not about the survivor or victim anymore but rather about her own need to CONFRONT. And EXPOSE. I feel there is a lot of hidden rage in Alice's words and behaviour and because it is still hidden it comes out in things like this. Confronting others. It almost feels like this rage doesn't really belong here, it should be directed at someone else. Confronting is something some people might like to do but others might not. and others might like to confront their abusers and the abuse later on.
I have had person centred counselling before and I had to move on. But by god I will never poo poo the person centered approach. It has helped me to get to a new level of insight and consciousness and ego strength hence I was able to move on to psycho dynamic psychoanalytical counselling now. And who says this will be or should be the be all and end all? Maybe I will take what I can from this therapy until I get stuck again and move to something else? All therapies and approaches are part of the big healing picture. My recovery. This is what is important. Not CONFRONTING. What is important is that the individual has a box of tools and possibilities to chose from. And that means different approaches. The Client chooses NOT the therapist. How dare you tell people what is OK and good and what isn't. You are not mother who tells her little children "Here - this is for you, I will not let you try anything else because as mother I know best. And if you don't like it I will reject you"
I feel that Alice's post is very aggressive, totally ignoring the reason perhaps why she first started to work in the HELPING profession. To help/care not to push an opinion on someone. But maybe that wasn't the reason she started in this profession and I am wrong?
What a bullying behaviour and I cant help but feel that this is something a parent usually does to their children. A parent 'knows whats best' for the child doesn't she? Perhaps those 50 years of experience Alice talks about have become a trap in a way and don't let her see the roots anymore, the humility and open mindedness which every counsellor needs to help the individual. The beauty in the individual and the beauty in variety. Because that is what we are! Individuals. And how dare Alice Miller to behave like she is the judge, jury and executioner..
Of course I am not sure she will read this but if she is I would like to say "Who do you think you are?"
This 50 years experience thing sounds very familiar to me. My ex counsellor shouted that down the phone to me before she slammed down the receiver.
"I have been a therapist for over 20 years!!!! blah blah blah" And she slammed the phone down. 'Experience' can be a good thing but it can also cloud the mind and sometimes I get the feeling that this quest Alice Miller has, has become an obsession with no room for anything else (unless she agrees with it of course)
It truly is like the bully parent who says "I know what is best for you my child - slap. And I slapped ya because it is for your own good!!" HA! The very thing Alice Miller frowns up on she does!
Open you eyes Alice! you are actually repeating something very unhealthy and dangerous. This is not a game. It is peoples lives.
And it is not OK to poo poo other approaches when they might help others. Where is your acceptance and understanding? Your empathy? Everyone needs to do what they need to do at any given time and if that means they would like to do IFS then so be it, only because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that its no good and cant help people. Maybe people are not able to confront yet and maybe that is difficult to accept on your part?
You also said:
Before it reminded me of a kind of negotiating with different parts like used in therapies of multiple personalities and I thought it was more or less harmless.
Since when is ANY therapy approach harmless??????????????????????????
I am in utter shock. I cannot believe I have read this. No therapy is harmless. Is that what you want to do a harmless therapy? All therapies can go the other way - depending on the counsellor and individual.
Hence the need to have different approaches.
What a weird statement. Harmless. In what way? Harmless in the sense of it not further damaging the client?
I feel there is something very narcissistic, domineering, despotic and tyrannical about Alice's post and way of thinking. I often feel that she has lost the reasons why she has entered the helping professions and is obsessed by a selfish need to confront and slay [her] parents. It seems such a selfish and obsessed way to go about things - almost as if she isnt afraid to go over dead bodies to get her point across or to 'convert' people.
I think that the IFS, like so many other methods was developed exactly to AVOID the confrontation with one's parents out of fear that everybody knows. Thus it is an INTERNAL SYSTEM. Today, after some new experiences, I see it much more clearly.
My dear Alice, that is merely YOUR opinion and I find it very sad that you have become such a narrow minded, judging and retaliating human being (AdultChild). Of course this is your website and it is your right to remove whatever you want but the way it is done reminds me of a dirty and power grabbing divorce of parents with no thought at all for the children (YOUR members) who are watching and listening.
How very selfish... and again the true 'invisible' victims and survivors are not thought about; it is the goal that matters isn't it? The confronting.The making a point! Making people see and hear! Hear and see what Alice? Every time I think of you I see a little girl still trying to make people see in how much pain she is, how much rage she has inside. Yes you have used that rage in many beneficial ways and have channeled it to write very helpful books which gave many people around the world insights into their own damaged childhood but I often wonder whether that helped heal at all YOUR own pain and rage. Reading this letter I cant believe it has. It almost feels like a little child wanting to run riot and wanting to scream and shout "Look look look what they did to me!! What they are capable of! look look look this is what they did to me!" But instead she lets it out in other ways, becoming blinkered and this anger, hidden rage crippling the empathy for others and their thoughts, views, experiences etc. How sad.
There is another thing I would like to say. An internal system (and I have many parts inside) is to be respected and honoured. Yes my system wants to keep the 'secrets' still secret but there is a reason for that. It was this secrecy which saved my life Alice. How dare you disrespect the inner world and 'systems' of MYSELF and talk about confrontation. This has been a secret many years and needs to be respected and honoured. Only then will trust be gained and words be spoken,. Only then will the truth come out and the pain and rage with it.
It is an internal system not because I don't want to confront the abuser. It is an internal system because it has been developed to keep me safe from more abuse as a child back then.
Not everyone as a child, has the 'pleasure' to speak up and not be killed Alice. So something needs to shut the child up. To safe it. Now as an adult I learn to speak, We learn to speak. But not by force. Only by the respect and patience from my therapist. She is a counsellor thats all you need to know, the approach does not matter. What matters is that she is willing to sit with my pain and rage and not PUSH me. We do some fantastic work together and I have grown so much already. So how dare you make your little opinion the be all and end all! I hear so much resentments and bitterness in your words.
And the very reason I go to therapy is to NOT avoid. The very reason of therapy is to see and understand, to listen and hear my selves speak and express themselves. NOT necessarily to confront but to finally feel safety and genuine care and compassion. Who knows what will happen after they feel safe - I might confront my mother. I might not. What is important is ME and I am an individual. I need acceptance and care, I need understaning for who I am and for what I am not able to be yet.
I don't know whether you have any right at all to judge people who live with such split off parts.
You might have a notion but that doesn't make it right.
I feel very disrespected by your comment.
I think that the IFS, like so many other methods was developed exactly to AVOID the confrontation with one's parents out of fear that everybody knows.
Why is it so difficult for you to be open minded? I feel that you are driven and ruled by your own need for justice and confrontation. Stop it! There needs to be open mindedness and acceptance and a BALANCE. You seem to be so extreme in what you do, what you believe in and how you JUDGE and act.
SO I CAN'T RECOMMEND A FORUM THAT WORKS WITH A METHOD, WHICH CONTRADICTS WITH THE CONCEPT OF THERAPY THAT I DEVELOPPED AFTER 50 YEARS OF THERAPEUTIC EXPERIENCE.
Have you any idea at all how pathetic and almost godlike you sound. So what, you have been a therapist for 50 years? So what? Some parents are parents for 80 years and still selfish and abusive, just the way of abuse might change. Your time in this business means nothing to me Alice. I judge people by what they say and how they act. And by you using this very sentence in capital letters just tells me how full of yourself you truly are.
don't succeed as long as they are afraid of the patients hidden rage.
First of all I would like to say I don't like the name patient as it shows that YOU are above them and more healthy? Less damaged? I prefer to call them client. That makes me closer to an equal and a helper rather than a professional.
Anyway, I agree with this sentence. One can not sit with someone else's pain and rage if they themselves are afraid of their own [hidden] rage and pain. But what are you saying Alice? No therapy except the ones you agree of (which ones are they again?) will be OK and should be practiced?
You really need to come down to earth again. I honestly believe that the 50 years of this business have hardened you to many things. How sad really. I don't see a compassionate person, a truly accepting person. What if one of your clients has a different opinion to you? They get the confrontation pushed down their throat? My EX therapist didn't want to let me try any other therapy as she too thought her therapy was 'best'. And how i suffered because of her self righteousness!
But hey, she had been a therapist for over 20 years!! Mummy knows best right??
As the forum is not a cult group and it hopefully will not become as such
*miaouuuuuwww* *scratch*
Passive aggressiveness at its best.
Again I have to say that I am very disappointed in how this affair has been handled. I came here for support and empathy. I didn't want to know what 'mummy and daddy' are arguing about.
But seems that mummy and daddy do not care much about us, the invisible victims, the silent victims. All that matters is that they make their point! And your point you have made Alice- that's for sure.
5 years ago this would have crushed me, but because of the DIFFERENT therapies and self groups I have attended I am strong enough to withstand such a slanging match.
I have learned one thing early on in life and that is
Es ist nicht alles gold was glaenzt
Mia (written September 29th, 2008)
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